诺奖得主Andre Geim专访丨如何让科研更有趣？（TBSI联合访谈）
在2017深圳国际石墨烯高峰论坛期间，材料人与清华-伯克利深圳学院（微信号： tbsi2014）对诺奖得主Ander Geim教授进行了联合访谈。
Ander Geim教授于2010年因发现石墨烯获得诺贝尔物理学奖，然后石墨烯迅速成为物理学和材料科学的热门话题。在连续四届深圳国际石墨烯高峰论坛期间，Ander Geim都作为嘉宾出席并做主题报告，以下为访谈视频、主要英文内容和翻译。
访谈稿英文参考
You know, first there was graphene, and then after graphene has become so popular, people including myself already in 2005, one year after the Nobel Prize acknowledge paper, we published papers claiming that graphene is not alone. It has many sisters, brothers, cousins, and whatever distance relatives. So, as I said, we call this conference "Graphene", but graphene doesn't mean any more graphene itself. It's a shorthand for all other 2-dimensional materials.
And in addition, what happened during the last three years is, you can combine those materials, like a deck of cards, you can combine them in making new materials, which are impossible in nature. And we can make them in the lot. At a moment, industrial interest is focusing on graphene, because it has been the first. And in addition, companies are making money out of graphene. So there are not enough industrialists or entrepreneurs on this planet, even to try yet, what other 2-dimensional materials can deliver. And hetero-structures which I mentioned, currently is the subject of fundamental research.
What we can learn from this one, at the moment is that there are at least, ten, twenty years in future before we can start doing anything about this one. But this is the nature of science, it's not like a computer program, you wrote a smart codes, and in two, three years, you have become a multi-billionaire. In real world, behind dotcom world, it always takes a long time, 20, 30, 50 years, before a fundamental discovery brings consumer products.
But in case of graphene, it's happening really fast. No one, 10 years ago, saw that today there would be hundreds of companies around the world making money out of graphene. It's incredibly quick. Probably because graphene unlike other discoveries, delivers a lot and it is very versatile material.
This reminds me, just what I've said, I was sitting with a colleague, another scientist who came from the US, a very distinguished scientist. And he asked me the question.
“I looked through your talk, and what's the connection between the first part of the talk and the second part of the talk? They seem to be completely different subjects.”
And I replied "the connection is myself". I try to make research interesting to venture, into areas where I was not an expert a few years ago. So if you dig in the same place, it's very hard to compete. In graphene there are so many people involved, it's very hard to compete, even for myself.
But if you go somewhere outside, there are still places where you'll find first time discovery, first time phenomena. And it's kind of hard, psychologically to learn a new subject, but my brain is not dead yet, I'd like to keep myself as agile as the students who have their brain trying to make life lasting experience of learning new things. So, that's interesting, because you don't want to get bored all the time doing the same thing, like manual worker on the factory doing the same stuff. If you focus on the same subject, in a sense it's easy to do, but then you are routine. And I don't want routine.
（图为Andre Geim教授在2017深圳国际石墨烯高峰论坛上发言）
Of course, your installed scientific equipment is important, is expensive, and you don't try to damage any equipment during those experiments. So this was a kind of experiment, which started with a very simple question, similar question I'm trying to answer, still these days, what happens with water if it's put into very high magnetic fields?
There is a phenomena, no-magnet water, people say, if you put a small magnet next to your water tap, there would be no scale on your kettle, and there would be no scale on your hot water pipe. So magnetic field removes the scale. This is people's claim, you can buy those descaling devices in households, goods shops, etc. No one still knows how it works, even whether it works. So, it was an attempt to answer this question, a scientific question. Whether something special there is about water? If you tried small fields and they work, then you're obviously asking whether this phenomena becomes more pronounced in high magnetic field.
So I try to answer a question, "what happens with water in high magnetic field?" And then I found it unexpectedly for myself and my professional colleagues that water levitates, and then after that it has become fun, what else can levitate? You can put vegetables, strawberries, tomatoes, piece of sugar, anything, what you want, in water it levitates, so eventually I put a frog and a hamster inside magnetic field, and it works as well.
This time for the first time, I have a glimpse of your city, which is a looking as impressive now as Hong Kong, with all skyscrapers and etc. And of course, I know that it's one of the fastest growing areas in China, in terms of economic output and so on. So it's probably not the last time I'm visiting Shenzhen, maybe one day I'll go to your city center to business center and industrial district and see a little bit more of your beautiful city. I like the climate actually of this city. Because it's similar to the climate where I was born. It's also warm and humid climate which I got used to. I was born in Sochi Black Sea coast Mediterranean kind of climate. So the climate is good. So you can expect me to come a few more times to this city, maybe as often as once a year.
访谈稿中文参考
石墨烯在它问世后的一年，也就是2005年，逐渐变的很流行。在诺贝尔奖颁发之后，包括我在内的学者们发文章表示石墨烯并不是唯一。石墨烯还有很多兄弟姐妹，它们或多或少存在着联系。所以正如我说，这次会议我们所谈的“石墨烯”，不仅仅是石墨烯自身。它是所有二维材料的统称。
此外，近三年发生的故事是，你可以将石墨烯等材料像一叠扑克牌一样在其他材料里面复合，这在自然界中是不可能实现的。现在我们可以实现很多这样的复合。这段时间工业界的兴趣正集中在石墨烯上，那些公司还可以利用石墨烯赚钱。目前在这个星球上，还没有足够多的实业家或者企业家去尝试其他二维材料可以实现什么。
我们可以从这里学到的是，此刻我们距离能在这方面有所作为还有十年或者二十年的时间。但是这是科学的自然规律，它不像电脑程序，你可以写一个智能代码，在两三年之后你可就以变成亿万富翁。在互联网之外的真实的世界中，基础科研发现带来消费类产品一般要花费20年、30年甚至50年的时间。
但是对于石墨烯来说，这一切发生的太快了。没人可以在10年前说现在有这么多的公司可以依靠石墨烯赚钱。也许是因为石墨烯不像其他的发现，它是多功能材料，带给我们太多的东西。
这提醒了我，如我所说，我和一个同事坐在一起，他是来自英国的一个非常杰出的科学家。他问了我这个问题。
“我听了您整个报告，第一部分和第二部分的联系是什么？它们好像完全是不同的主题。”
然后我回答道“联系就是我自己”。我尝试将研究兴趣转向我近几年没有涉足过的领域，想去探险。如果你要在相同领域工作的话，竞争是很激烈的。有如此多的人研究石墨烯方面相关的课题，即便是我，也要面临严峻的竞争。
如果你去石墨烯之外的领域，那里依然会有很多地方你可以第一个得到某种发现、观察到某中现象。从心理学的角度，学习新的科目有点难，但是我的大脑还没死，我尝试保持和我的学生一样敏捷，他们的大脑让生命持续体验新东西。所以这很有趣，因为你并不想所有的时间干一件事而变得无趣，像一个工厂里的体力劳动者做着同样的事。如果你一直专注于一个学科，一定程度上这很容易，但是你会变得程式化。我不想程式化。
当然，你安装的科学设备是非常重要，非常昂贵的，所以你必须确保在整个实验过程中仪器不受损坏。这是一类由非常简单的问题引发的实验，和我要回答的问题类似，直到这些天，（我还在想）如果将水放入强磁场会水发生什么反应？
生活中有一个现象，对于无磁性的水，如果你在你的水龙头旁放置一个小磁铁，在你的水壶上将不会有水锈，同时在你的热水管上也不会有水锈，所以是强磁场消除了水锈。你能够在家中，商店等买到那些除锈设备，这是人们的诉求。但人们一直不知道它是如何工作的，甚至是否能够工作。所以，这是一个需要努力回答的问题，一个科学问题。对于水，是否有什么特殊的问题存在？如果在低磁场中这个奏效了，那么你理所当然的就会想这一现象在高磁场中是否会更加明显。
所以我尝试回答一个问题，“水在强磁场中会发生什么？”之后水悬浮对我和我的同事来说是个不可思议的发现，此后的研究变得非常有趣，还有什么可以悬浮呢？你可以将例如蔬菜，草莓，西红柿，方糖等任何你想到的物品放置在水中让其悬浮，最终，我放了一只青蛙和一只仓鼠在强磁场中而且都成功了。
这是我第一次对深圳进行了大概的了解，给我的感觉和香港很像，有很多的摩天大楼。当然，在经济等方面，深圳都是中国目前发展最快的区域之一。这应该不是我最后一次来深圳，或许有一天我有机会去市中心、商业中心、工业区多看一下，多了解一下这个美丽的城市。我特别喜欢这里的气候，这与我出生地索契黑海沿岸的气候非常相似。那里是温暖潮湿的地中海型气候，我早已习惯，非常棒。所以我会经常来深圳，或许一年一次。
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